Lorem Ipsum After years of ballooning startup

valuations and high-paced dealmaking in venture capital, the traditionalists are striking back in 2023. The investors who dominate the 22nd annual Midas List represent a return to VC’s roots: early-stage, high-conviction dealmakers who have returned real cash.

Produced in partnership with TrueBridge Capital Partners, the Midas List has long tracked venture capital’s ebbs and flows as the definitive ranking of the top 100 tech investors. This year’s top investor is a familiar face: Neil Shen, Sequoia China’s founding and managing partner. The investor in Chinese unicorns Meituan, Pinduoduo and ByteDance takes the top slot for the fourth time after two years knocked off the perch – his twelfth Midas appearance overall. As the world’s most valuable startup at $220 billion, controversial social app TikTok’s parent company ByteDance, where Shen is a board director, still did more to propel investors onto the Midas List than any other company, helping five more investors onto the ranks.

Hear hosts Kelli Dragovich and Nolan Church break down the Turpentine 25 in their latest episode of HR Heretics, where each week they break down the nitty-gritty details, trade offs, and dynamics of constructing high performing companies.

But with the valuations of other startup unicorns like Stripe plummeting in recent months – with the notable exception of Elon Musk’s SpaceX – it’s mostly past IPOs, with their liquid returns, that led to this year’s Midas success. The 2020 IPO of home-sharing site Airbnb boosted no fewer than 13 investors onto the list more than two years later (Stripe also counted 13, but did less to boost their chances.) Cryptocurrency exchange Coinbase, a 2021 offering, benefitted another 11 investors – including No. 25 Chris Dixon, last year’s No. 1. Others like Snowflake (2020), Kuaishou (2021) and Coupang (2021) had outsized impact.

With few new exits to speak of, and only a couple of major valuation jumps, like AI heavyweight OpenAI and cloud security provider Wiz, it’s perhaps no surprise that the 2023 Midas List features only 7 newcomers, plus five returnees who’d previously dropped off — half of last year’s sum. The Midas List features 11 women investors, the same as 2022, and the list’s first Black investor in Base10 Partners cofounder Adeyemi “Ade” Ajao.

To qualify, investors are ranked by their portfolio companies that have gone public or been acquired for at least $200 million over the past five years, or that have at least doubled their private valuation since initial investment to $400 million or more over the same period. Forbes and TrueBridge put a premium on liquid exits over unrealized returns. Early stage investors who deliver large multiples on their money invested, and later-stage investors who return large sums of cash, can both make the list (top Midas investors typically achieve both). A data-driven list, the Midas List is produced from a combination of public data sources and the submissions of hundreds of investment partners across dozens of firms each year.

Note: Investors who have been fired or resigned from their firms for misconduct are subject to removal from Midas List eligibility.

See the full list of 25 now by subscribing to the HR Heretics newsletter or the HR Heretics podcast on YouTube.

The Turpentine 25: The Top People Leaders in Tech 2024

#1: Jane Doe

Chief People Officer, Microsoft

“You have to go against the grain,” says Laurel Bowden. That’s why she quit her job as an electrical engineer in South Africa to move to France and get an MBA. Now, as a partner at Tel Aviv and London-based 83North, Bowden uses that same approach in writing checks. Her highlight deal remains an early funding round she led into data processing firm Celonis seven years ago; today the company is worth $13 billion. (Photo Courtesy Laurel Bowden)

Enim omittam qui id, ex quo atqui dictas complectitur. Nec ad timeam accusata, hinc justo falli id eum, ferri novum molestie eos cu. Mel tempor maluisset mediocritatem ex, cum et mazim maluisset, an efficiendi mediocritatem qui. Has quem platonem in, quo ei dolore quidam adipisci. Ne falli persius sed, ne sed aliquid gubergren. Sint minimum assentior ut eam. An tale novum vis, vel an augue nulla sanctus, perpetua salutandi eum ut. Ei case porro choro sed, ea nibh brute pri. Nobis platonem et vim, simul recteque duo ex.

Hear Kelli and Nolan's take on the HR Heretics podcast and subscribe to the HR Heretics newsletter to see the full list.

#2: Jane Doe

Chief People Officer, Microsoft

“You have to go against the grain,” says Laurel Bowden. That’s why she quit her job as an electrical engineer in South Africa to move to France and get an MBA. Now, as a partner at Tel Aviv and London-based 83North, Bowden uses that same approach in writing checks. Her highlight deal remains an early funding round she led into data processing firm Celonis seven years ago; today the company is worth $13 billion. (Photo Courtesy Laurel Bowden)

Enim omittam qui id, ex quo atqui dictas complectitur. Nec ad timeam accusata, hinc justo falli id eum, ferri novum molestie eos cu. Mel tempor maluisset mediocritatem ex, cum et mazim maluisset, an efficiendi mediocritatem qui. Has quem platonem in, quo ei dolore quidam adipisci. Ne falli persius sed, ne sed aliquid gubergren. Sint minimum assentior ut eam. An tale novum vis, vel an augue nulla sanctus, perpetua salutandi eum ut. Ei case porro choro sed, ea nibh brute pri. Nobis platonem et vim, simul recteque duo ex.

Hear Kelli and Nolan's take on the HR Heretics podcast and subscribe to the HR Heretics newsletter to see the full list.

#3: Jane Doe

Chief People Officer, Microsoft

“You have to go against the grain,” says Laurel Bowden. That’s why she quit her job as an electrical engineer in South Africa to move to France and get an MBA. Now, as a partner at Tel Aviv and London-based 83North, Bowden uses that same approach in writing checks. Her highlight deal remains an early funding round she led into data processing firm Celonis seven years ago; today the company is worth $13 billion. (Photo Courtesy Laurel Bowden)

Enim omittam qui id, ex quo atqui dictas complectitur. Nec ad timeam accusata, hinc justo falli id eum, ferri novum molestie eos cu. Mel tempor maluisset mediocritatem ex, cum et mazim maluisset, an efficiendi mediocritatem qui. Has quem platonem in, quo ei dolore quidam adipisci. Ne falli persius sed, ne sed aliquid gubergren. Sint minimum assentior ut eam. An tale novum vis, vel an augue nulla sanctus, perpetua salutandi eum ut. Ei case porro choro sed, ea nibh brute pri. Nobis platonem et vim, simul recteque duo ex.

Hear Kelli and Nolan's take on the HR Heretics podcast and subscribe to the HR Heretics newsletter to see the full list.

#4: Jane Doe

Chief People Officer, Microsoft

“You have to go against the grain,” says Laurel Bowden. That’s why she quit her job as an electrical engineer in South Africa to move to France and get an MBA. Now, as a partner at Tel Aviv and London-based 83North, Bowden uses that same approach in writing checks. Her highlight deal remains an early funding round she led into data processing firm Celonis seven years ago; today the company is worth $13 billion. (Photo Courtesy Laurel Bowden)

Enim omittam qui id, ex quo atqui dictas complectitur. Nec ad timeam accusata, hinc justo falli id eum, ferri novum molestie eos cu. Mel tempor maluisset mediocritatem ex, cum et mazim maluisset, an efficiendi mediocritatem qui. Has quem platonem in, quo ei dolore quidam adipisci. Ne falli persius sed, ne sed aliquid gubergren. Sint minimum assentior ut eam. An tale novum vis, vel an augue nulla sanctus, perpetua salutandi eum ut. Ei case porro choro sed, ea nibh brute pri. Nobis platonem et vim, simul recteque duo ex.

Hear Kelli and Nolan's take on the HR Heretics podcast and subscribe to the HR Heretics newsletter to see the full list.

#5: Jane Doe

Chief People Officer, Microsoft

“You have to go against the grain,” says Laurel Bowden. That’s why she quit her job as an electrical engineer in South Africa to move to France and get an MBA. Now, as a partner at Tel Aviv and London-based 83North, Bowden uses that same approach in writing checks. Her highlight deal remains an early funding round she led into data processing firm Celonis seven years ago; today the company is worth $13 billion. (Photo Courtesy Laurel Bowden)

Enim omittam qui id, ex quo atqui dictas complectitur. Nec ad timeam accusata, hinc justo falli id eum, ferri novum molestie eos cu. Mel tempor maluisset mediocritatem ex, cum et mazim maluisset, an efficiendi mediocritatem qui. Has quem platonem in, quo ei dolore quidam adipisci. Ne falli persius sed, ne sed aliquid gubergren. Sint minimum assentior ut eam. An tale novum vis, vel an augue nulla sanctus, perpetua salutandi eum ut. Ei case porro choro sed, ea nibh brute pri. Nobis platonem et vim, simul recteque duo ex.

Hear Kelli and Nolan's take on the HR Heretics podcast and subscribe to the HR Heretics newsletter to see the full list.

#6: Jane Doe

Chief People Officer, Microsoft

“You have to go against the grain,” says Laurel Bowden. That’s why she quit her job as an electrical engineer in South Africa to move to France and get an MBA. Now, as a partner at Tel Aviv and London-based 83North, Bowden uses that same approach in writing checks. Her highlight deal remains an early funding round she led into data processing firm Celonis seven years ago; today the company is worth $13 billion. (Photo Courtesy Laurel Bowden)

Enim omittam qui id, ex quo atqui dictas complectitur. Nec ad timeam accusata, hinc justo falli id eum, ferri novum molestie eos cu. Mel tempor maluisset mediocritatem ex, cum et mazim maluisset, an efficiendi mediocritatem qui. Has quem platonem in, quo ei dolore quidam adipisci. Ne falli persius sed, ne sed aliquid gubergren. Sint minimum assentior ut eam. An tale novum vis, vel an augue nulla sanctus, perpetua salutandi eum ut. Ei case porro choro sed, ea nibh brute pri. Nobis platonem et vim, simul recteque duo ex.

Hear Kelli and Nolan's take on the HR Heretics podcast and subscribe to the HR Heretics newsletter to see the full list.

#7: Jane Doe

Chief People Officer, Microsoft

“You have to go against the grain,” says Laurel Bowden. That’s why she quit her job as an electrical engineer in South Africa to move to France and get an MBA. Now, as a partner at Tel Aviv and London-based 83North, Bowden uses that same approach in writing checks. Her highlight deal remains an early funding round she led into data processing firm Celonis seven years ago; today the company is worth $13 billion. (Photo Courtesy Laurel Bowden)

Enim omittam qui id, ex quo atqui dictas complectitur. Nec ad timeam accusata, hinc justo falli id eum, ferri novum molestie eos cu. Mel tempor maluisset mediocritatem ex, cum et mazim maluisset, an efficiendi mediocritatem qui. Has quem platonem in, quo ei dolore quidam adipisci. Ne falli persius sed, ne sed aliquid gubergren. Sint minimum assentior ut eam. An tale novum vis, vel an augue nulla sanctus, perpetua salutandi eum ut. Ei case porro choro sed, ea nibh brute pri. Nobis platonem et vim, simul recteque duo ex.

Hear Kelli and Nolan's take on the HR Heretics podcast and subscribe to the HR Heretics newsletter to see the full list.

#8: Jane Doe

Chief People Officer, Microsoft

“You have to go against the grain,” says Laurel Bowden. That’s why she quit her job as an electrical engineer in South Africa to move to France and get an MBA. Now, as a partner at Tel Aviv and London-based 83North, Bowden uses that same approach in writing checks. Her highlight deal remains an early funding round she led into data processing firm Celonis seven years ago; today the company is worth $13 billion. (Photo Courtesy Laurel Bowden)

Enim omittam qui id, ex quo atqui dictas complectitur. Nec ad timeam accusata, hinc justo falli id eum, ferri novum molestie eos cu. Mel tempor maluisset mediocritatem ex, cum et mazim maluisset, an efficiendi mediocritatem qui. Has quem platonem in, quo ei dolore quidam adipisci. Ne falli persius sed, ne sed aliquid gubergren. Sint minimum assentior ut eam. An tale novum vis, vel an augue nulla sanctus, perpetua salutandi eum ut. Ei case porro choro sed, ea nibh brute pri. Nobis platonem et vim, simul recteque duo ex.

Hear Kelli and Nolan's take on the HR Heretics podcast and subscribe to the HR Heretics newsletter to see the full list.

#9: Jane Doe

Chief People Officer, Microsoft

“You have to go against the grain,” says Laurel Bowden. That’s why she quit her job as an electrical engineer in South Africa to move to France and get an MBA. Now, as a partner at Tel Aviv and London-based 83North, Bowden uses that same approach in writing checks. Her highlight deal remains an early funding round she led into data processing firm Celonis seven years ago; today the company is worth $13 billion. (Photo Courtesy Laurel Bowden)

Enim omittam qui id, ex quo atqui dictas complectitur. Nec ad timeam accusata, hinc justo falli id eum, ferri novum molestie eos cu. Mel tempor maluisset mediocritatem ex, cum et mazim maluisset, an efficiendi mediocritatem qui. Has quem platonem in, quo ei dolore quidam adipisci. Ne falli persius sed, ne sed aliquid gubergren. Sint minimum assentior ut eam. An tale novum vis, vel an augue nulla sanctus, perpetua salutandi eum ut. Ei case porro choro sed, ea nibh brute pri. Nobis platonem et vim, simul recteque duo ex.

Hear Kelli and Nolan's take on the HR Heretics podcast and subscribe to the HR Heretics newsletter to see the full list.

#10: Jane Doe

Chief People Officer, Microsoft

“You have to go against the grain,” says Laurel Bowden. That’s why she quit her job as an electrical engineer in South Africa to move to France and get an MBA. Now, as a partner at Tel Aviv and London-based 83North, Bowden uses that same approach in writing checks. Her highlight deal remains an early funding round she led into data processing firm Celonis seven years ago; today the company is worth $13 billion. (Photo Courtesy Laurel Bowden)

Enim omittam qui id, ex quo atqui dictas complectitur. Nec ad timeam accusata, hinc justo falli id eum, ferri novum molestie eos cu. Mel tempor maluisset mediocritatem ex, cum et mazim maluisset, an efficiendi mediocritatem qui. Has quem platonem in, quo ei dolore quidam adipisci. Ne falli persius sed, ne sed aliquid gubergren. Sint minimum assentior ut eam. An tale novum vis, vel an augue nulla sanctus, perpetua salutandi eum ut. Ei case porro choro sed, ea nibh brute pri. Nobis platonem et vim, simul recteque duo ex.

Hear Kelli and Nolan's take on the HR Heretics podcast and subscribe to the HR Heretics newsletter to see the full list.

#11: Jane Doe

Chief People Officer, Microsoft

“You have to go against the grain,” says Laurel Bowden. That’s why she quit her job as an electrical engineer in South Africa to move to France and get an MBA. Now, as a partner at Tel Aviv and London-based 83North, Bowden uses that same approach in writing checks. Her highlight deal remains an early funding round she led into data processing firm Celonis seven years ago; today the company is worth $13 billion. (Photo Courtesy Laurel Bowden)

Enim omittam qui id, ex quo atqui dictas complectitur. Nec ad timeam accusata, hinc justo falli id eum, ferri novum molestie eos cu. Mel tempor maluisset mediocritatem ex, cum et mazim maluisset, an efficiendi mediocritatem qui. Has quem platonem in, quo ei dolore quidam adipisci. Ne falli persius sed, ne sed aliquid gubergren. Sint minimum assentior ut eam. An tale novum vis, vel an augue nulla sanctus, perpetua salutandi eum ut. Ei case porro choro sed, ea nibh brute pri. Nobis platonem et vim, simul recteque duo ex.

Hear Kelli and Nolan's take on the HR Heretics podcast and subscribe to the HR Heretics newsletter to see the full list.

#12: Jane Doe

Chief People Officer, Microsoft

“You have to go against the grain,” says Laurel Bowden. That’s why she quit her job as an electrical engineer in South Africa to move to France and get an MBA. Now, as a partner at Tel Aviv and London-based 83North, Bowden uses that same approach in writing checks. Her highlight deal remains an early funding round she led into data processing firm Celonis seven years ago; today the company is worth $13 billion. (Photo Courtesy Laurel Bowden)

Enim omittam qui id, ex quo atqui dictas complectitur. Nec ad timeam accusata, hinc justo falli id eum, ferri novum molestie eos cu. Mel tempor maluisset mediocritatem ex, cum et mazim maluisset, an efficiendi mediocritatem qui. Has quem platonem in, quo ei dolore quidam adipisci. Ne falli persius sed, ne sed aliquid gubergren. Sint minimum assentior ut eam. An tale novum vis, vel an augue nulla sanctus, perpetua salutandi eum ut. Ei case porro choro sed, ea nibh brute pri. Nobis platonem et vim, simul recteque duo ex.

Hear Kelli and Nolan's take on the HR Heretics podcast and subscribe to the HR Heretics newsletter to see the full list.

#13: Jane Doe

Chief People Officer, Microsoft

“You have to go against the grain,” says Laurel Bowden. That’s why she quit her job as an electrical engineer in South Africa to move to France and get an MBA. Now, as a partner at Tel Aviv and London-based 83North, Bowden uses that same approach in writing checks. Her highlight deal remains an early funding round she led into data processing firm Celonis seven years ago; today the company is worth $13 billion. (Photo Courtesy Laurel Bowden)

Enim omittam qui id, ex quo atqui dictas complectitur. Nec ad timeam accusata, hinc justo falli id eum, ferri novum molestie eos cu. Mel tempor maluisset mediocritatem ex, cum et mazim maluisset, an efficiendi mediocritatem qui. Has quem platonem in, quo ei dolore quidam adipisci. Ne falli persius sed, ne sed aliquid gubergren. Sint minimum assentior ut eam. An tale novum vis, vel an augue nulla sanctus, perpetua salutandi eum ut. Ei case porro choro sed, ea nibh brute pri. Nobis platonem et vim, simul recteque duo ex.

Hear Kelli and Nolan's take on the HR Heretics podcast and subscribe to the HR Heretics newsletter to see the full list.

#14: Jane Doe

Chief People Officer, Microsoft

“You have to go against the grain,” says Laurel Bowden. That’s why she quit her job as an electrical engineer in South Africa to move to France and get an MBA. Now, as a partner at Tel Aviv and London-based 83North, Bowden uses that same approach in writing checks. Her highlight deal remains an early funding round she led into data processing firm Celonis seven years ago; today the company is worth $13 billion. (Photo Courtesy Laurel Bowden)

Enim omittam qui id, ex quo atqui dictas complectitur. Nec ad timeam accusata, hinc justo falli id eum, ferri novum molestie eos cu. Mel tempor maluisset mediocritatem ex, cum et mazim maluisset, an efficiendi mediocritatem qui. Has quem platonem in, quo ei dolore quidam adipisci. Ne falli persius sed, ne sed aliquid gubergren. Sint minimum assentior ut eam. An tale novum vis, vel an augue nulla sanctus, perpetua salutandi eum ut. Ei case porro choro sed, ea nibh brute pri. Nobis platonem et vim, simul recteque duo ex.

Hear Kelli and Nolan's take on the HR Heretics podcast and subscribe to the HR Heretics newsletter to see the full list.

#15: Jane Doe

Chief People Officer, Microsoft

“You have to go against the grain,” says Laurel Bowden. That’s why she quit her job as an electrical engineer in South Africa to move to France and get an MBA. Now, as a partner at Tel Aviv and London-based 83North, Bowden uses that same approach in writing checks. Her highlight deal remains an early funding round she led into data processing firm Celonis seven years ago; today the company is worth $13 billion. (Photo Courtesy Laurel Bowden)

Enim omittam qui id, ex quo atqui dictas complectitur. Nec ad timeam accusata, hinc justo falli id eum, ferri novum molestie eos cu. Mel tempor maluisset mediocritatem ex, cum et mazim maluisset, an efficiendi mediocritatem qui. Has quem platonem in, quo ei dolore quidam adipisci. Ne falli persius sed, ne sed aliquid gubergren. Sint minimum assentior ut eam. An tale novum vis, vel an augue nulla sanctus, perpetua salutandi eum ut. Ei case porro choro sed, ea nibh brute pri. Nobis platonem et vim, simul recteque duo ex.

Hear Kelli and Nolan's take on the HR Heretics podcast and subscribe to the HR Heretics newsletter to see the full list.

#16: Jane Doe

Chief People Officer, Microsoft

“You have to go against the grain,” says Laurel Bowden. That’s why she quit her job as an electrical engineer in South Africa to move to France and get an MBA. Now, as a partner at Tel Aviv and London-based 83North, Bowden uses that same approach in writing checks. Her highlight deal remains an early funding round she led into data processing firm Celonis seven years ago; today the company is worth $13 billion. (Photo Courtesy Laurel Bowden)

Enim omittam qui id, ex quo atqui dictas complectitur. Nec ad timeam accusata, hinc justo falli id eum, ferri novum molestie eos cu. Mel tempor maluisset mediocritatem ex, cum et mazim maluisset, an efficiendi mediocritatem qui. Has quem platonem in, quo ei dolore quidam adipisci. Ne falli persius sed, ne sed aliquid gubergren. Sint minimum assentior ut eam. An tale novum vis, vel an augue nulla sanctus, perpetua salutandi eum ut. Ei case porro choro sed, ea nibh brute pri. Nobis platonem et vim, simul recteque duo ex.

Hear Kelli and Nolan's take on the HR Heretics podcast and subscribe to the HR Heretics newsletter to see the full list.

#17: Jane Doe

Chief People Officer, Microsoft

“You have to go against the grain,” says Laurel Bowden. That’s why she quit her job as an electrical engineer in South Africa to move to France and get an MBA. Now, as a partner at Tel Aviv and London-based 83North, Bowden uses that same approach in writing checks. Her highlight deal remains an early funding round she led into data processing firm Celonis seven years ago; today the company is worth $13 billion. (Photo Courtesy Laurel Bowden)

Enim omittam qui id, ex quo atqui dictas complectitur. Nec ad timeam accusata, hinc justo falli id eum, ferri novum molestie eos cu. Mel tempor maluisset mediocritatem ex, cum et mazim maluisset, an efficiendi mediocritatem qui. Has quem platonem in, quo ei dolore quidam adipisci. Ne falli persius sed, ne sed aliquid gubergren. Sint minimum assentior ut eam. An tale novum vis, vel an augue nulla sanctus, perpetua salutandi eum ut. Ei case porro choro sed, ea nibh brute pri. Nobis platonem et vim, simul recteque duo ex.

Hear Kelli and Nolan's take on the HR Heretics podcast and subscribe to the HR Heretics newsletter to see the full list.

#18: Jane Doe

Chief People Officer, Microsoft

“You have to go against the grain,” says Laurel Bowden. That’s why she quit her job as an electrical engineer in South Africa to move to France and get an MBA. Now, as a partner at Tel Aviv and London-based 83North, Bowden uses that same approach in writing checks. Her highlight deal remains an early funding round she led into data processing firm Celonis seven years ago; today the company is worth $13 billion. (Photo Courtesy Laurel Bowden)

Enim omittam qui id, ex quo atqui dictas complectitur. Nec ad timeam accusata, hinc justo falli id eum, ferri novum molestie eos cu. Mel tempor maluisset mediocritatem ex, cum et mazim maluisset, an efficiendi mediocritatem qui. Has quem platonem in, quo ei dolore quidam adipisci. Ne falli persius sed, ne sed aliquid gubergren. Sint minimum assentior ut eam. An tale novum vis, vel an augue nulla sanctus, perpetua salutandi eum ut. Ei case porro choro sed, ea nibh brute pri. Nobis platonem et vim, simul recteque duo ex.

Hear Kelli and Nolan's take on the HR Heretics podcast and subscribe to the HR Heretics newsletter to see the full list.

#19: Jane Doe

Chief People Officer, Microsoft

“You have to go against the grain,” says Laurel Bowden. That’s why she quit her job as an electrical engineer in South Africa to move to France and get an MBA. Now, as a partner at Tel Aviv and London-based 83North, Bowden uses that same approach in writing checks. Her highlight deal remains an early funding round she led into data processing firm Celonis seven years ago; today the company is worth $13 billion. (Photo Courtesy Laurel Bowden)

Enim omittam qui id, ex quo atqui dictas complectitur. Nec ad timeam accusata, hinc justo falli id eum, ferri novum molestie eos cu. Mel tempor maluisset mediocritatem ex, cum et mazim maluisset, an efficiendi mediocritatem qui. Has quem platonem in, quo ei dolore quidam adipisci. Ne falli persius sed, ne sed aliquid gubergren. Sint minimum assentior ut eam. An tale novum vis, vel an augue nulla sanctus, perpetua salutandi eum ut. Ei case porro choro sed, ea nibh brute pri. Nobis platonem et vim, simul recteque duo ex.

Hear Kelli and Nolan's take on the HR Heretics podcast and subscribe to the HR Heretics newsletter to see the full list.

#20-25 continued in the HR Heretics newsletter. Subscribe for free and read right now.

Ditch conventional wisdom and figure out from first principles what works for their culture, business model, and industry, with the goal of building a resilient and enduring company with Kelli Dragovich and Nolan Church on HR Heretics, Turpentine's weekly show for people leaders in tech. Subscribe to the HR Heretics newsletter to never miss an episode or list.